3 times means: “no more denial” and “final”


Back To Prabhupada, Issue 30, Winter 2010/11

Srila Prabhupada makes it clear that a conclusion stated at least 3 times can not be denied, but rather it is irrevocably and irrefutably established as final:

“3 times means giving too much stress. […] That means no more denial. Finish all stress. So as soon as one thing is 3 times stressed, that means final.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 27/11/1968)

However, ISKCON continues to remain in denial over some basic conclusions which have clearly been established at least 3 times.

FINAL: Diksha gurus not ordered

Strike 1:

Bhavananda: “There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.”
Tamala Krsna: “That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Mädhava Maharaja...”
Bhavananda: “Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Very strong management required and vigilant observation.”
(Conversation, 27/5/77)

Srila Prabhupada states that anyone trying to become guru in ISKCON should be stopped through “strong management and vigilant observation”. Clearly, therefore, Srila Prabhupada was not intending on the very next day to order ritviks (officiating priests) who would become diksha (initiating) gurus on his departure, as the GBC claims! (GBC resolution 409, 2004, please see BTP 4).

Strike 2:

Satsvarupa: “Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.”
Prabhupada: “Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.
Tamala Krsna: “Is that called rtvik-acarya?”
Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes.”
(Conversation, May 28th, 1977)

Strike 3:

Satsvarupa: “So they may also be considered your disciples.”
Prabhupada: “Yes, they are disciples. Why consider? Who?”
(Conversation, May 28th, 1977)

Confirming in two further ways, the point made under Strike 1, in the conversation held the next day, Srila Prabhupada states:

a) He will appoint ritviks, not diksha gurus, to conduct initiations for “particularly at that time” that he will be “no longer with us”.
b) Those whom the ritviks will initiate will be his disciples.

So there can be “no more denial” and it’s “final” that ritviks were not ordered to turn into diksha gurus.”

FINAL: Ritvik system permanent, not temporary

Strike 1:

“Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “rittik”-representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation.”
(July 9th directive, 1977)

Strike 2:

“Make your own field and continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to ritvik Hamsadutta, 31/7/1977)

Strike 3:

“The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and Codicil)

It is stated in 3 different ways that the ritvik system established by Srila Prabhupada is to be permanent rather than being discontinued on his departure:

a) The system is meant to fulfil the permanent purpose of conducting first and second initiations.
b) A ritvik should continue to act in this capacity.
c) After Srila Prabhupada’s departure, the system of management for ISKCON, which includes how initiations are managed, must continue without change.

So there can be “no more denial” and it’s “final” that the ritvik system was not to be discontinued, just 120 days (Srila Prabhupada’s departure) after it was established.

FINAL: “Become guru” does not mean diksha guru

Strike 1:

“Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu ...Yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna’- upadesa: “You become guru. No qualification required.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 25/1/77)

Strike 2:

Yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna’-- bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Syamasundara’s daughter. She was preaching, “Do you know Krsna?” […] Everyone can become guru by simply teaching these 3 words.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 25/1/77)

Strike 3:

“The cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is explained here very nicely. […] It is best not to accept any disciples.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 7:128, 7:130, purport)

In 3 different ways, Srila Prabhupada makes it clear that his use of Lord Caitanya’s order to “become guru”, does not refer to diksha gurus, since:

a) One does not require any qualification.
b) Anyone can do it, even a child.
c) One should not take any disciples.

All 3 points are in stark contrast to a diksha guru:

a) Who must be qualified.
b) Only those authorised can act as such.
c) Must accept disciples.

So again, this conclusion, that “become guru” does not authorise “diksha gurus”, is established as “final”, and there can be “no more denial” regarding this point.


1) Srila Prabhupada did not order 11 ritviks to stop acting as ritviks and instead turn into diksha gurus.

2) The ritvik system was a permanent, not temporary, system.

3) The order to “become guru” does not refer to diksha gurus.

Each of the above conclusions has been proven 3 times, and establishes the same point - that Srila Prabhupada remains ISKCON’s diksha guru. And this point is itself proven 3 times! How more “final” can it be?!

Even materialistic governments understand that “3 times means final” – in the USA they have a “3 strikes and you are out” policy for criminals who commit 3 crimes. Yet our supposedly “self-realised” ISKCON gurus and their supposedly “vaisnava” followers still do not understand this simple teaching from Srila Prabhupada.

Please chant: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, 
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare.
 And be Happy!