Madhudvisa Defeats Madhudvisa


By Yaduraja das, IRM UK



26th December 2001

Madhudvisa's Defeat Of Madhudvisa

Madhudvisa Das* has written a paper entitled "Krishnakant's Final Order- A Very Misleading Paper" in which he disputes the conclusions of "The Final Order". As we all know this paper demonstrates from signed directives that Srila Prabhupada did not authorise his disciples to initiate their own disciples within ISKCON, but only to operate a Ritvik initiation system with himself remaining the sole, institutional diksa Guru. Madhudvisa states that such a conclusion is 'very misleading', and that Krishnakant, the paper's author, is a 'crazy fellow' for stating this.

However, Madhudvisa's claims can be defeated by an authority that it is logically inadmissible for him to defeat - namely himself! For Madhudvisa has made the following statements around the same time he wrote his scathingly personalised attack:

"I understand Prabhupada established a Ritvik system to continue to accept disciples after his departure from our material vision and that is the only authorized system of initiation in ISKCON." (Madhudvisa Dasa, 24/11/01, Letter to Krishnakant and Others)


"My observation is the Ritvik philosophy as presented by KK is quite sound. He points out that Prabhupada says three times in the July 9th letter that the disciples will be his disciples and that is a signed legal document that was mailed to all temples and GBC's under Prabhupada's instruction WITH Prabhupada's Will. So this is a very important document. It is quite rare for Prabhupada to send a letter to all temples and GBC's." (Madhudvisa Das, Letter to Locanananda Das, 12/12/01)


"My realization is we have to give Srila Prabhupada the credit of the great intelligence and judge of character that we know he had. He established a Ritvik system for continuing the initiations in ISKCON, but, at the same time, he knew it very well, his leading disciples were not going to follow that instruction..."
(Madhidvisa Dasa, Letter to Locanananda Das, 12/12/01)


"Prabhupada could not force his disciples to accept the Ritvik system or follow any of the instructions he gave them. He gave the instruction... But what more could he do?"
(Madhudvisa Dasa, Letter to Locanananda Das, 12/12/01)

So Madhudvisa makes it clear again and again that the Ritvik system is the "only authorised system of initiation in ISKCON". And please note that these are not Madhudvisa's previous views which he has now claimed to change, they are current. Yet in his paper -"Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper", he states the exact opposite:

"This is a specific order from Srila Prabhupada stating becoming spiritual master of the world is open for all of his disciples."
(Madhudvisa Das, "Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper")

Here Madhudvisa comments on a quote wherein Srila Prabhupada states that one 'can become the spiritual master of the world'. However, as we have seen above, Madhudvisa does not actually believe this since he has already said that no one except Srila Prabhupada should be the spiritual master in ISKCON via the Ritvik system. So by Madhudvisa's own statements no one can or should be the spiritual master of the world, since ISKCON is also part of the world, and this is off-limits to all spiritual masters except Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada himself described ISKCON as a world movement, so where is there left for any other gurus by Madhudvisa's own logic? Unless Madhudvisa prabhu is referring to a world other than the one he currently inhabits. He states:

"Here Srila Prabhupada orders his disciples to become spiritual master next. Clearly Srila Prabhupada is speaking of the "spiritual master's succession," he is speaking of himself as the current spiritual master and is requesting all of his disciples to "become spiritual master next." Prabhupada is clearly talking of diksa gurus."
(Madhudvisa Das, "Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper")

Here Madhudvisa comments on a quote wherein Srila Prabhupada's states that 'every one of you should be spiritual master next'. Clearly, according to Madhudvisa, Srila Prabhupada is not speaking of the 'spiritual master's succession', since Srila Prabhupada is never succeeded by his disciples, but remains the Guru in perpetuity via the Ritvik system as he previously asserted. He goes on:

"Here Prabhupada clearly states his disciples are being trained to be future diksa gurus. They will act just as he is acting [i.e.: they will act as diksa gurus]" (Madhudvisa Das, "Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper")

Above Madhudvisa comments on a quote wherein Srila Prabhupada states:

'These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing [...] they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.'

Once again how can Madhudvisa truly believe that Srila Prabhupada wanted his own disciples to act 'just' as he 'doing', since that would mean them initiating within ISKCON (this is 'just' what Srila Prabhupada was 'doing') and yet we have just read Madhudvisa clearly preaching that no one is allowed to initiate in ISKCON except Srila Prabhupada!

In this way, every interpretation of Srila Prabhupada's quotes which Madhudvisa gives in his attack on "The Final Order" can be defeated by his simultaneous assertion that only Srila Prabhupada can ever initiate in ISKCON.

Madhudvisa also contradicts himself further by stating that we should not even be discussing the subject of Ritvik and ISKCON:

"Prabhupada's ISKCON has now ceased to exist. The organization that now exists has no connection with Prabhupada at all and it can not be rectified simply by changing the initiation system. [...] So it is pointless to go over and over and over these points, which devotees have been wasting their time doing since the early 80's. Rather we should concentrate our energy on doing something practical like reading Srila Prabhupada's books and talking about what is in them with each other... We have to establish something practical outside ISKCON and actually follow the program Srila Prabhupada gave us... Forget about ISKCON. Let them go to hell by themselves..."
(Madhudvisa Dasa, Letter to Locanananda Das, 12/12/01)

Yet instead of following his own advice and doing something 'practical', he decides instead to write a paper which does not present a single quote from Srila Prabhupada's books in support of his thesis.

Then for good measure, after having repeatedly contradicted himself, Madhudvisa also states that *Srila Prabhupada* contradicted himself:

"Yes, on May 28 there is a contradictory statement where Prabhupada says the disciples of the Ritviks will be their disciples not Prabhupada's... So it is a bit strange..."
(Madhudvisa Dasa, Letter to Locanananda Das, 12/12/01)

The only thing which is 'strange' is Madhudvisa's offensive mentality, whereby he thinks that Srila Prabhupada is afflicted with his own flaw of self-contradiction.

Madhudvisa had predicted at the end of his paper the following:

"I expect Krishna Kant will come back with pages of nonsense meant to divert the readers attention from the points Srila Prabhupada has clearly established here and claim "I have defeated Madhudvisa." But we will leave it to the thoughtful readers to decide who has actually been defeated." (Madhudvisa Dasa, "Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper")

Thoughtful readers will most likely see that, from Madhudvisa's own quotes presented above, *Krishnakant* did not even need to respond him. Rather it is clear that:

'Madhudvisa has defeated Madhudvisa'!

Surely the most crushing defeat of all. So thoughtful readers will indeed have to decide who has been defeated, was it Madhudvisa or Madhudvisa?

Not only can Madhudvisa defeat his own assertion that Srila Prabhupada ordered his disciples to initiate their own disciples, but anyone who goes to the IRM website, will see that these same false interpretations to Srila Prabhupada's quotes have also been given by the GBC, and they have been soundly defeated therein also.

The fact that Madhudvisa continues to simultaneously promote the Ritvik position would seem to indicate he has not suddenly embraced the GBC's philosophy that 'Srila Prabhupada consistently and continually ordered his disciples to initiate in ISKCON after his departure', even though that's exactly what Madhudvisa states in his recent attack. So why does he both accept the Ritvik conclusion, and at the same time attack 'The Final Order' with arguments that defeat his own position? We can only speculate that such bizarre behaviour is due to Madhudvisa's envy of "The Final Order" paper. This envy may be due to his own admission that the Ritvik conclusions presented in 'The Final Order' are Krishnakant's unique contribution, and thus no one had previously presented them:

"Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become diksa [initiating] gurus, ever. This is his unique addition to the Ritvik philosophy." (Madhudvisa Das, "Krishnakant's Final Order - A Very Misleading Paper")

Perhaps this is why he tries to defeat "The Final Order" at all costs, even at the expense of ridiculing his own statements. Otherwise to promote as correct two mutually exclusive contradictory conclusions is truly the behaviour of a 'crazy fellow', the very accusation he makes against Krishnakant.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada

Yaduraja das

* (Note: This is not the famous 'old' Srila Prabhupada disciple Madhudvisa, the ex-GBC member, but another individual who adopted the same name via a 'Ritvik' ceremony he claims he took in Australia. He was also previously known as Madhudvisa Swami and Mahasringa Swami, having also given himself sannyasa initiation via a picture of Srila Prabhupada. However later decided that he did not want to be a sannyasi, and reverted back to the name Madhudvisa Das)