Guru-tattwa (rev. 19 April 2008) 1. Guru-tatwa is unlimited. Anyone who says he knows guru perfectly is a fool. Even in Goloka there is Guru, Lord Balarama. The Vraja-vasi’s wanted to enter the water to save Krsna, but Lord Balarama stopped them. He knew Krsna’s position. He regulated their service. We want to have a practical understanding of Guru so that we can advance in our service to Krsna. That’s enough. 2. There are many types of Gurus. One should accept the proper Guru for his specific purporse. There are siksa, diksa, vartmana-pradarsika-guru, astra-guru, ashrama-guru, patni-guru. Talking of why Drona Acharya is called Guru in the Bhagavad Gita Srila Prabhupada explains that this word means teacher. In India the children bring a mango to the teacher and say, “Namste guruji”. We are writing this on our “ Vyasa puja” 2006 so let us talk about Diksa guru. Later we can discuss more as you like. Before initiation there is advice, Siksa, how to get on the path back to Godhead. Siksa-guru at this level is called vartmana-pradarsika-guru, the instructing spiritual master who shows us the path. When we are serious and want to formally make a commitment to Krsna, then Diksa-gurus makes that link. After initiation there is more advice, Siksa, how to go back to Godhead following our committed determination. Of course the same person may be all three types of Gurus. Personally we understand ourselves at this time to be Madhyama-adhikaris. We have taken intiation from a bona fide spiritual master and are engaged in worshiping the Deity. If we look at the last paragraph in Text Five of Upadesamrta Prabhupada explains that a Madhyama-adhikari can accept disciples but in the perspective of an Uttama-adhikari-guru. So, that is the kind of Diksa-guru we are. We give names, beads, promises on the authority of the Founder Acharya of ISKCON Srila Prabhupada. Everyone of our Disciples should accept Srila Prabhupada as a Guru. Who is the Diksa-guru, you or Prabahupada? Answer depends on what you mean by Diksa guru. If you mean the person who chants on the beads and gives the name and makes the promise with his own lips that by chanting your prescribed number of rounds you are guaranteed to advance to the highest platform of Uttama-adhikari, then we are the Diksa-guru. If you take Diksa-guru as that person who makes the contract with Krsna, then it is Prabhupada. Quoting what we’ve heard from Prabhupada if you engage in devotional service it will all be very clear. Its practically clear to us. We are trying to not eclipse Prabhupada, but we are also offer a facility on this authority. What happens if a Disciple falls down? Unless you are chanting 16-nice rounds, and that means Mangala-arati and Srimad Bhagavatam and Sankirtana and practical relation with ISKCON; and following the 4-principles strictly then we cannot function as your Diksa-guru, representative to Srila Prabhupada and the Guru-parampara. If you want we can certainly try to serve you as Vartmana-pradarshika-guru again and get you back on the path and then we can be Disksa guru again. Don’t cheat yourself. Srila Prabhupada talks about Guru-tattwa again and again in his books, but the main thing is just our sincerity to serve Srila Prabhupada. We are following Srila Prabhupada and therefore we are going back to Godhead. Anybody who follows us, following Srila Prabhupada is also going back to Godhead, and the same is true for people following people following us. You have to work out these these to a practical level to chant good rounds, follow the principles and engage in sankirtana and then gradually guru-tattwa will become clearer and clearer to you. Any questions? Amarendra: Guru is described as a god, an absolute authority, but we see in ISKCON that many of our gurus falldown. How can we understand that? How can he be Absolute if he falls down? HpS: As far as we understand he’s absolute because he told you that he might fall down. If he’s madhyama-adhikari then he most likely won’t fall down from devotional service but he might have some accidental falldown into bad activties. ”api cet suduracaro, bhajate mam ananya bhak” (BG): Even an “ananya bhak”, very fixed devotee can falldown, not just into “duracaro”, bad acts, but into “suduracaro”, abominable acts, but he may still “sadhur eva samantavyaha”, internally a sincere, saintly devotee. He may feel very, very bad about his accident. Personally I tell people that this is my position. I am a madhayama-adhikari. For considerable time I an undeviating in chanting my rounds, following principles, mangala-arati, sankirtana etc. but considering the history of our Western Godbrothers its not a question of if I will falldown, it seems more likely that I will falldown. Maybe some special mercy for the most fallen we’ll be able to avoid that, God help us, but if we do then we plan to get back up in a wonderful way. We Westerners come from abominable backgrounds so if there is accidental falldown into bad activities then it may not be too surprising. Just like a child, he loses control of his senses sometimes and crys, but nobody takes it too seriously. With a little help he gets back in line and is wonderful again. Srila is our standard. We are trying to help him. … From the HED 1 April 2008 2) In Nectar of Instruction at the end of Text Five Srila Prabhupada says that Kanistha and Madhyama Adhikari can become Guru, but one should accept an Uttama Adhikari as a Guru. That's our position. We are Madhyama Adhikari. We are properly following an Uttama Adhikari Guru and giving names and beads and making the contract on his order. If you accept us as guru you must accept Srila Prabhupada as your Acharya. 3) All this is from the NOI. We must chant 16 nice rounds a day and follow the 4 principles strictly, rise by 1-1/2 hours before sunrise, offer some Mangala arati, perform Kirtana and then read Srimad Bhagavatam, and then engage in Sankirtana in Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON. 4) This means we have to have a practical relationship with ISKCON and the GBC. To our understanding the GBC is the Ultimate Administrative Authority in ISKCON and under them we have specific authorities. This is administration, ksatriya, side. The brahminical side is idealized by the Sannyasis. And in general, anybody can be good association and a guru. That's the real purpose of ISKCON, to get good association. 5) First duty of GBC is to set proper example and see that people are getting up for Mangala Arati and coming to class etc. Administration becomes easy then. Sannyasis should also not renounce Mangala Arati. Comment - But GBC, Temple Presidents, even Sannyasis are not coming to Mangala Arati more and more. Answer - So we have to preach to them, take proper action. If you are not satisfied with one GBC answer, then you can go to another, and another, the whole GBC Body and then Prabhupada. Its administration, like any institution. Don't expect things to be too intimate. That is more Brahminical and Devotee relations. 6) Comment - Some Gurus allow their Grhastha disciples to Fornicate for Fun once a month. Is that allowed? Can I do that?? Answer - We have personal experience of hearing this from pretty reliable sources. It is not allowed for Initiated devotees. Only sexual relations after Garbhadana Samskara etc. Discuss it with your Father, not a Sannyasi. As we understand the confusion maybe that if one falls from the Grhastha standard then the Diksa guru is no longer acting as Diksa guru, but if he feels that the devotee is sincere then he will continue to act as Vartmana pradarshika Guru, Siksa guru, who gives us advice how to get back to the standard path, but without establishing that relation with him as Diksa guru again, you can't expect to advance in spiritual life. Comment - My guru is very advanced and Srila Prabhupada gave him secret instructions that he doesn't mention in his books about these fundamental points such as illicit sex. Answer - We can understand that there are many lines of devotees behind Srila Prabhupada. Our line is bona fide to the best of our comprehension. Maybe the most insignificant. So there are differences. Get a guru. Get a connection to an Acharya such as Srila Prabhupada some how or other. We remember that Prabhupda writes, that the Acharya does not give instructions in secret. He gives them in public where every one can hear. Of course there are details. 7) What is the standard for second initiation? Answer - The same as first initiation but more strict. At least one year following after first iniation. You don't have to take second initiation to go back to Goloka if you follow Hari Nama vow properly. It is for Brahmana, Ksatriya, Vaisya. Now you must act like a good example of a Lady or Gentlemen. Your Ashrama must be clear. You must dress and act like a Brahmacari, Grhastha etc. Then life can be very nice. Back Home Back to Godhead. Question - We have more questions. Answer - We will try to write more precisely on this for our Vyasapuja Offering in the next few days and then also communicate with our Godbrothers on these topics. Especially Mangala arati, Morning Program and Sex in the Grhastha Ashrama are topics that we need to clarify. We feel that these things are becoming institutionalized in ISKCON and that will be the absolute end of everything. … From HED 19 April 2008 Many people responded to the comments about the regulative principles in the last HED. It was amazing how people took it in so many different ways. We had exchange of letters with Prema Vikash Prabhu and he comments that in his centers in Australia he is very strict on the point of Mangala Arati for himself and those under his authority. From one forme secretary of H. H. Jayapataka Swami we learned of Maharaja's standard. Even if up until very late taking care of disciples, and now dealing with sever health issues, Maharaja still wakes up by 4AM 90% of the time and even if he can't go to the Temple because of needs of the body he chants Gurvastakam in his rooms. Also, as many may have seen questions about illicit sex for candidates for Second Initiation in Maharaja's survey for Second Initiation and may have understood this to mean that illicit sex is allowed after second initiation, there is clarification that this is a Survey and doesn't mean that Maharaja is giving Second Initiation to those who are not following. There were many other responses from disciples and leaders but basically it seems clear to us that everyone agrees we have to chant 16 nice rounds, follow the 4 principles strictly and rise early for Managala Arati to be following Srila Prabhupada's standard for initiated disciples, but certainly one can also be a demon and following the external principles. There has to be some idea of love and personal feeling there. Also, Karma-yoga, doing whatever you can do for Krsna, nicely , not dog-hard, and then engaging in the regulative principles of hearing and chanting as much as you can, is the actual level for most of us. Actually this is the standard Arjuna himself presents in the BG, no? Karma-yoga is Yoga and it leads to Sadhana Bhakti Yoga for us. Prabhupada comments in one purport that one should not be too concerned about other peoples religious practices because this will only make the mind restless. One should focus more on his own standard. So, give the discussion a rest and work on your own advancement.